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	<title>Comments on: I have been thinking- the photography/art continuum  Pt I: from film to digital</title>
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	<link>http://www.thistonybridge.com/2010/03/01/i-have-been-thinking-the-photographyart-continuum-pt-i-from-film-to-digital</link>
	<description>Christchurch Photographer</description>
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		<title>By: Tony Bridge</title>
		<link>http://www.thistonybridge.com/2010/03/01/i-have-been-thinking-the-photographyart-continuum-pt-i-from-film-to-digital/comment-page-1#comment-26630</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony Bridge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Mar 2010 02:46:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thistonybridge.com/?p=1435#comment-26630</guid>
		<description>Hi OSG:
 How wonderful to have you here.
 I fully agree that  it comes down to getting past the &quot;artifices that exist in our own minds.&quot;
signed
Colin of Collingwood</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi OSG:<br />
 How wonderful to have you here.<br />
 I fully agree that  it comes down to getting past the &#8220;artifices that exist in our own minds.&#8221;<br />
signed<br />
Colin of Collingwood</p>
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		<title>By: OSG</title>
		<link>http://www.thistonybridge.com/2010/03/01/i-have-been-thinking-the-photographyart-continuum-pt-i-from-film-to-digital/comment-page-1#comment-26599</link>
		<dc:creator>OSG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Mar 2010 22:20:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thistonybridge.com/?p=1435#comment-26599</guid>
		<description>This response is from a &quot;used to be a photographer&quot; who remains interested but no longer practices.

To paraphrase Joe McNally..
&quot;The camera’s not a camera, really. It’s an open door we need to walk through.  It’s up to us to keep moving our feet.&quot;
To dredge up frommy own photogarphic upbringing, the walls we see as obstacles to success or moving forward are really artifices that exist in our own minds.
Step aside from the maelstrom and observe what is going on and for goodness sake stop being dependant on the default settings and think like the guy up the mountain with the 10 x 8 camera and a few plateholders. Think the picture through, twiddle some of these dials and settings and who knows what may result.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This response is from a &#8220;used to be a photographer&#8221; who remains interested but no longer practices.</p>
<p>To paraphrase Joe McNally..<br />
&#8220;The camera’s not a camera, really. It’s an open door we need to walk through.  It’s up to us to keep moving our feet.&#8221;<br />
To dredge up frommy own photogarphic upbringing, the walls we see as obstacles to success or moving forward are really artifices that exist in our own minds.<br />
Step aside from the maelstrom and observe what is going on and for goodness sake stop being dependant on the default settings and think like the guy up the mountain with the 10 x 8 camera and a few plateholders. Think the picture through, twiddle some of these dials and settings and who knows what may result.</p>
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		<title>By: Tony Bridge</title>
		<link>http://www.thistonybridge.com/2010/03/01/i-have-been-thinking-the-photographyart-continuum-pt-i-from-film-to-digital/comment-page-1#comment-26555</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony Bridge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Mar 2010 20:44:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thistonybridge.com/?p=1435#comment-26555</guid>
		<description>couldn&#039;t agree more....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>couldn&#8217;t agree more&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Alan D</title>
		<link>http://www.thistonybridge.com/2010/03/01/i-have-been-thinking-the-photographyart-continuum-pt-i-from-film-to-digital/comment-page-1#comment-26525</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan D</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Mar 2010 04:33:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thistonybridge.com/?p=1435#comment-26525</guid>
		<description>Like Graham I suspect that a large part of the perceived  problem is the sheer volume of images flooding our minds daily. Be it TV, magazines, email, internet, emails, etc. and with modern cameras it is nowhere near so hard to get an acceptable image on the “Auto” setting.

However, be that as it may, we all have access to similar tools (albeit somewhat limited by the amount we want to spend on clever cameras, software etc. ) yet some people still manage to create astounding works with surprisingly simple equipment. After all, centuries ago everyone with a bit of money had access to the same paints, paper, canvas etc. as Da Vinci, Van Gogh, yet only the gifted ones produced lasting works of art. Doc is also right though that a knowledge of the history of art/photography is important to enable one to work creatively with those basic tools.

To quote Ian Drury &amp; the Blockheads….   “There ain’t half been some clever bastards”
Lucky bleeders ! Lucky bleeders !</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Like Graham I suspect that a large part of the perceived  problem is the sheer volume of images flooding our minds daily. Be it TV, magazines, email, internet, emails, etc. and with modern cameras it is nowhere near so hard to get an acceptable image on the “Auto” setting.</p>
<p>However, be that as it may, we all have access to similar tools (albeit somewhat limited by the amount we want to spend on clever cameras, software etc. ) yet some people still manage to create astounding works with surprisingly simple equipment. After all, centuries ago everyone with a bit of money had access to the same paints, paper, canvas etc. as Da Vinci, Van Gogh, yet only the gifted ones produced lasting works of art. Doc is also right though that a knowledge of the history of art/photography is important to enable one to work creatively with those basic tools.</p>
<p>To quote Ian Drury &amp; the Blockheads….   “There ain’t half been some clever bastards”<br />
Lucky bleeders ! Lucky bleeders !</p>
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		<title>By: Tony Bridge</title>
		<link>http://www.thistonybridge.com/2010/03/01/i-have-been-thinking-the-photographyart-continuum-pt-i-from-film-to-digital/comment-page-1#comment-26482</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony Bridge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Mar 2010 01:40:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thistonybridge.com/?p=1435#comment-26482</guid>
		<description>hi Cheryl:
 Many thanks for your comments. In a former life I was involved in e=Learning research as well...
In  no way would I consider it a dying art. However, i still believe that it is an art in transition, much as we all are at the moment, whatever we might think/believe. I think this is reflected in the back to the future approach of the medium, with digital trying for the greater part to be son of film.
 More about that in upcoming essays....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hi Cheryl:<br />
 Many thanks for your comments. In a former life I was involved in e=Learning research as well&#8230;<br />
In  no way would I consider it a dying art. However, i still believe that it is an art in transition, much as we all are at the moment, whatever we might think/believe. I think this is reflected in the back to the future approach of the medium, with digital trying for the greater part to be son of film.<br />
 More about that in upcoming essays&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Cheryl Harvey</title>
		<link>http://www.thistonybridge.com/2010/03/01/i-have-been-thinking-the-photographyart-continuum-pt-i-from-film-to-digital/comment-page-1#comment-26481</link>
		<dc:creator>Cheryl Harvey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Mar 2010 01:16:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thistonybridge.com/?p=1435#comment-26481</guid>
		<description>Wow! What an interesting lot of questions? This could take a whole year. I am not a professional photographer nor an expert photographer but I am an enthusiastic photographer. I am primarily an educator, my teaching subjects were English and Drama and now I work with teachers to improve their practice. So I come from a different perspective. 
21st century learners dominates my landscape and elearning is my professional development goal into which I integrate my interest in photography. Everybody is constantly in the midst of turmoil and change at the moment - we used to write letters we now text etc. The world is full of choices - there are many paths. 
A couple of years ago I studied photography part-time at MIT - this was a vocational course aimed at students wanting to become commercial photographers. I also did some papers for the visual arts diploma which leaned more towards a fine arts focus which is completely different from commercial. They both have their place. 
Go to Paris and you can spend a whole week looking at photography exhibitions. It is not a dying art. The sameness you talk about is that the masses now have access to photography in the same way the priests in bygone eras were the only ones who knew how to write. So you make a choice as to which path to follow. 
I currently participate in &quot;The Daily Shoot&quot; which I operate along with a blog on Flickr. This is improving my craft and practice enormously and this is what I need. What I would like to do is Fine Art photography but I need to understand the basics first. Fortunately hte course I did had 2 papers, one in black &amp; white &amp; darkroom, the other in digital technologies. So I know a bit of both.
The world we live and work in at the moment is full of digital images (getting back to the 21st century). It is important that teachers use digital technologies in the classroom to engage students and use their prior knowledge. But some of them will choose to delve deeper and go the visual arts or commercial/graphic arts direction. Artists work within the context of the culture they live in but at the same time stand back from it in order to communicate their own interpretations of the world. The commercial artist looks for the niche market. I am sure there is always going to be a niche market for handprinted black and white images (I hope so I have a darkroom). So the choice always is to remain cogniscent of directions and changes but at the same time find one&#039;s own means of individual expression in the world (unless one is happy just to live each day etc)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow! What an interesting lot of questions? This could take a whole year. I am not a professional photographer nor an expert photographer but I am an enthusiastic photographer. I am primarily an educator, my teaching subjects were English and Drama and now I work with teachers to improve their practice. So I come from a different perspective.<br />
21st century learners dominates my landscape and elearning is my professional development goal into which I integrate my interest in photography. Everybody is constantly in the midst of turmoil and change at the moment &#8211; we used to write letters we now text etc. The world is full of choices &#8211; there are many paths.<br />
A couple of years ago I studied photography part-time at MIT &#8211; this was a vocational course aimed at students wanting to become commercial photographers. I also did some papers for the visual arts diploma which leaned more towards a fine arts focus which is completely different from commercial. They both have their place.<br />
Go to Paris and you can spend a whole week looking at photography exhibitions. It is not a dying art. The sameness you talk about is that the masses now have access to photography in the same way the priests in bygone eras were the only ones who knew how to write. So you make a choice as to which path to follow.<br />
I currently participate in &#8220;The Daily Shoot&#8221; which I operate along with a blog on Flickr. This is improving my craft and practice enormously and this is what I need. What I would like to do is Fine Art photography but I need to understand the basics first. Fortunately hte course I did had 2 papers, one in black &amp; white &amp; darkroom, the other in digital technologies. So I know a bit of both.<br />
The world we live and work in at the moment is full of digital images (getting back to the 21st century). It is important that teachers use digital technologies in the classroom to engage students and use their prior knowledge. But some of them will choose to delve deeper and go the visual arts or commercial/graphic arts direction. Artists work within the context of the culture they live in but at the same time stand back from it in order to communicate their own interpretations of the world. The commercial artist looks for the niche market. I am sure there is always going to be a niche market for handprinted black and white images (I hope so I have a darkroom). So the choice always is to remain cogniscent of directions and changes but at the same time find one&#8217;s own means of individual expression in the world (unless one is happy just to live each day etc)</p>
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		<title>By: Tony Bridge</title>
		<link>http://www.thistonybridge.com/2010/03/01/i-have-been-thinking-the-photographyart-continuum-pt-i-from-film-to-digital/comment-page-1#comment-26478</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony Bridge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Mar 2010 00:08:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thistonybridge.com/?p=1435#comment-26478</guid>
		<description>Guys:
 Many thanks for your comments and the discussion. I think it is invaluable.
 I am now planning the next essay, which pretty much moves into the space you are discussing.
 I still maintain, however, that the device ( read: camera) has a huge effect on our preconceptions of what the medium should be...and therein lies the crux of the problem....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Guys:<br />
 Many thanks for your comments and the discussion. I think it is invaluable.<br />
 I am now planning the next essay, which pretty much moves into the space you are discussing.<br />
 I still maintain, however, that the device ( read: camera) has a huge effect on our preconceptions of what the medium should be&#8230;and therein lies the crux of the problem&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: doc</title>
		<link>http://www.thistonybridge.com/2010/03/01/i-have-been-thinking-the-photographyart-continuum-pt-i-from-film-to-digital/comment-page-1#comment-26468</link>
		<dc:creator>doc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Mar 2010 20:50:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thistonybridge.com/?p=1435#comment-26468</guid>
		<description>Graham, you are right when you point out the expanding middle field of photography that has been bought about by more intelligent cameras and software and the issues that this creates. 

However I would have to disagree with you that the final image does not have a history to the viewer when it&#039;s on the gallery wall. In fact I would go as far as to say that part of the issue with the sameness in much photography that has been pointed out here is partly, or perhaps even greatly, due to those photographers lack of knowledge of the history of photography. The history a photograph takes to the gallery wall is the history carried by the photographer, and nothing better arms a photographer to achieve exceptional or out of the ordinary photographs than an understanding of the great photographs and the philosophies of their makers over the history of the medium.

You are also right when you say &quot;This can be either by the digital technologically engineered way or by the silver gelatin way&quot; and don&#039;t forget the hybrid of both! 

But It is the philosophical not the technical that creates great images, and as the numbers of images grow and ways to view them increase this becomes exponentially greater.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Graham, you are right when you point out the expanding middle field of photography that has been bought about by more intelligent cameras and software and the issues that this creates. </p>
<p>However I would have to disagree with you that the final image does not have a history to the viewer when it&#8217;s on the gallery wall. In fact I would go as far as to say that part of the issue with the sameness in much photography that has been pointed out here is partly, or perhaps even greatly, due to those photographers lack of knowledge of the history of photography. The history a photograph takes to the gallery wall is the history carried by the photographer, and nothing better arms a photographer to achieve exceptional or out of the ordinary photographs than an understanding of the great photographs and the philosophies of their makers over the history of the medium.</p>
<p>You are also right when you say &#8220;This can be either by the digital technologically engineered way or by the silver gelatin way&#8221; and don&#8217;t forget the hybrid of both! </p>
<p>But It is the philosophical not the technical that creates great images, and as the numbers of images grow and ways to view them increase this becomes exponentially greater.</p>
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		<title>By: Graham</title>
		<link>http://www.thistonybridge.com/2010/03/01/i-have-been-thinking-the-photographyart-continuum-pt-i-from-film-to-digital/comment-page-1#comment-26446</link>
		<dc:creator>Graham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Mar 2010 07:12:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thistonybridge.com/?p=1435#comment-26446</guid>
		<description>I feel that the shear amount of photography that is going on in the word today , or more to the point the amount of photographs that are available for viewing via the internet is what is causing this delema about photography / art / inderviduality.    We are all inderviduals and have our own way of seeing things and for those who have a clear pathway from the view to the camera to the print, then the process is irrelevent.     As has been pointed out that everyone who picks up a modern camera is almost instantly technically proficent and are posting images on the web and entering competitions in greater and greater numbers.  So this middle field of photography is getting very muddy with a great deal of ordinary to good images being shown so that for anything to be viewed as great has to be quite exceptional or very out of the ordinary.  This can be either by the digital technologicaly engineered way or by the silver gelitan way, 

The final image doesn not have a history to the viewer in the gallery, it only has a presence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I feel that the shear amount of photography that is going on in the word today , or more to the point the amount of photographs that are available for viewing via the internet is what is causing this delema about photography / art / inderviduality.    We are all inderviduals and have our own way of seeing things and for those who have a clear pathway from the view to the camera to the print, then the process is irrelevent.     As has been pointed out that everyone who picks up a modern camera is almost instantly technically proficent and are posting images on the web and entering competitions in greater and greater numbers.  So this middle field of photography is getting very muddy with a great deal of ordinary to good images being shown so that for anything to be viewed as great has to be quite exceptional or very out of the ordinary.  This can be either by the digital technologicaly engineered way or by the silver gelitan way, </p>
<p>The final image doesn not have a history to the viewer in the gallery, it only has a presence.</p>
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		<title>By: doc</title>
		<link>http://www.thistonybridge.com/2010/03/01/i-have-been-thinking-the-photographyart-continuum-pt-i-from-film-to-digital/comment-page-1#comment-26440</link>
		<dc:creator>doc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Mar 2010 04:30:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thistonybridge.com/?p=1435#comment-26440</guid>
		<description>Tony, the thing that interests me the most in discussions like this is, is the DSLR, the computer, the printer and the software&#039;s physical influence on photography the greatest? or is it the philosophical influences of all the above that has the greatest effect on photography now? 

Considering that so much of what is now the history of photography (and therefore has influenced many new ideas in the medium) has come about as a result of a mistake, either technical time or chemical, is there a chance that photography will homogenize without analogues vagueness and randomness?
Consider Man Ray (or more precisely Lee Miller) and solarization, an accepted accident that had a huge influence on photography, and still does to this day, is there potential in the digital age for such discoveries? Working with film I still make discoveries this way that influence my work, however I would never have the time or inclination to search in the infinate world of photoshop for these interventions.

I think digital photography has, to use your terminology, left home already and is happily on it’s journey. Digitography’s greatest feats and developments wont in my mind be realized until the now young digitographers who have known nothing else grow up (artistically speaking) with minds free of the influences of analogue ways, and take the new medium to places we can barely imagine now. Analogue photography will never die but will perhaps be further separated from digitography and then referred to much the way analogue photographers refer to painting and other mediums.

You ask “Are we overly influenced by the community in which we find ourselves? Does a group mentality emerge, a collective aesthetic which influences our own creativity, which imposes a series of mores upon it” I think there is clearly a collective aesthetic that has influense for both analogue and digital practitioners, just analogue has a long history to fall back on, the digital collective is still small which would account for the sameness you refer to, as it as yet has very few pure models to work from.

“And, if we choose to chart our own path, do we excommunicate ourselves from those groups” only if we choose to! 
At this point one can happily stand with one foot in each camp, but over time the gap will possibly become too great to do so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tony, the thing that interests me the most in discussions like this is, is the DSLR, the computer, the printer and the software&#8217;s physical influence on photography the greatest? or is it the philosophical influences of all the above that has the greatest effect on photography now? </p>
<p>Considering that so much of what is now the history of photography (and therefore has influenced many new ideas in the medium) has come about as a result of a mistake, either technical time or chemical, is there a chance that photography will homogenize without analogues vagueness and randomness?<br />
Consider Man Ray (or more precisely Lee Miller) and solarization, an accepted accident that had a huge influence on photography, and still does to this day, is there potential in the digital age for such discoveries? Working with film I still make discoveries this way that influence my work, however I would never have the time or inclination to search in the infinate world of photoshop for these interventions.</p>
<p>I think digital photography has, to use your terminology, left home already and is happily on it’s journey. Digitography’s greatest feats and developments wont in my mind be realized until the now young digitographers who have known nothing else grow up (artistically speaking) with minds free of the influences of analogue ways, and take the new medium to places we can barely imagine now. Analogue photography will never die but will perhaps be further separated from digitography and then referred to much the way analogue photographers refer to painting and other mediums.</p>
<p>You ask “Are we overly influenced by the community in which we find ourselves? Does a group mentality emerge, a collective aesthetic which influences our own creativity, which imposes a series of mores upon it” I think there is clearly a collective aesthetic that has influense for both analogue and digital practitioners, just analogue has a long history to fall back on, the digital collective is still small which would account for the sameness you refer to, as it as yet has very few pure models to work from.</p>
<p>“And, if we choose to chart our own path, do we excommunicate ourselves from those groups” only if we choose to!<br />
At this point one can happily stand with one foot in each camp, but over time the gap will possibly become too great to do so.</p>
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